Request // Response

Request // Response Episode 1: Separating Deployment from Release

Sagar Batchu

March 10, 2025

EPISODE 1

Separating deployment from release

GUEST

John Kodumal

Co-founder, Former CTO, LaunchDarkly

John is co-founder and former CTO of LaunchDarkly, where they pioneered feature flagging and server-sent events.

HOST

Sagar Batchu

CEO & Co-founder, Speakeasy

Sagar is the CEO & Co-founder of Speakeasy, passionate about API development and developer experience.

John Kodumal (opens in a new tab) is the co-founder and former CTO of LaunchDarkly (opens in a new tab). At LaunchDarkly, he created the feature flagging category and scaled the business to over 5000 customers. On the first episode of Request // Response, he joined us to discuss:

• The power of separating deployment from release
• How LD pioneered the use of server-sent events, long before it became the tech of choice for LLMs.
• The importance of traversability in API design.
• How the expectations for API design have evolved over time.
• What defines a great Developer Experience.

Listen on

Apple Podcasts (opens in a new tab) | Spotify (opens in a new tab)

Show Notes

[00:00:00] Introduction

• Sagar welcomes John Kodumal to the podcast.
• John’s background as co-founder and former CTO of LaunchDarkly.

[00:00:28] What is LaunchDarkly?

• LaunchDarkly’s role in separating deployment from release.
• The impact of fine-grained feature flag controls.
• Benefits: safer rollouts, experimentation, controlled beta releases.

[00:02:18] Pre-LaunchDarkly Era

• How companies previously handled feature releases.
• Homegrown tools and their limitations.
• Inspiration from early DevOps talks, including Flickr’s feature flagging.

[00:05:26] LaunchDarkly’s API and SDK Focus

• The importance of embedding into the software development lifecycle.
• Learning from Atlassian’s approach to API-driven development.
• Early investment in API design and OpenAPI specifications.

[00:10:37] Technical Deep Dive: SSE and Feature Flags

• Use of Server-Sent Events (SSE) for real-time feature flagging.
• Challenges with existing SSE open-source libraries.
• Ensuring consistency across distributed systems.

[00:14:23] The Evolution of API Expectations

• Increased demand for standardized, high-quality APIs.
• Importance of pagination, rate limiting, and caching.
• Growing role of OpenAPI specifications in modern API development.

[00:19:26] Traversability and Developer Experience

• APIs as traversable maps for both humans and machines.
• Comparison to REST principles and the Fielding Thesis.
• How great APIs lower integration barriers for developers and AI agents.

[00:22:40] What Defines Great Developer Experience?

• Macro and micro-scale perspectives on DevEx.
• Anticipating user needs and providing escape hatches.
• Importance of small but impactful UX details.

[00:26:23] Closing Thoughts

• The significance of developer experience in building tools.
• How LaunchDarkly has influenced modern software development.

More John Kodumal Quotes From The Discussion

1. Feature Flags Are Powerful

“A lot of people look at just that idea of feature flags, and they think that it’s small, and they’re shocked that there’s a multi billion dollar company that does feature flags. But it’s not about feature flags. It’s about all the changes to the software development lifecycle that feature flags enable”

2. Traversability Over Endpoints

“Nothing should be an endpoint. Everything should be traversable. If you have an endpoint, it’s broken.”

3. Working With The Complexity of Developer Needs

“In order to fit into someone’s SDLC you have to respect the differences that make their software development practices unique---you have to work with them, not force a one-size-fits-all solution.”

Referenced

• Flickr DevOps Talk on Feature Flagging 2009 (opens in a new tab)
• OpenAPI Specification (opens in a new tab)

Production by Shapeshift (opens in a new tab).

For inquiries about guesting on Request // Response, email samantha.wen@speakeasy.com.